Posts by drew sagan

13

Mormon documentary on PBS

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

there was an interesting documentary on the mormons yesterday.

you could substitute jw for mormon for most of it (except teachings) especially concerning obedience to the higher ups, not questioning the organization, etc.

they disfellowship and excommunicate (excommunication being a worse fate) and if anyone questions the church they are considered an apostate.

drew sagan

Most spouses of alcoholics are CODEPENDENT. Codependency is an illness. I think those who swap JW/LDS are sick. They are codependent.

While their dogmas are very different, the Mormons and JWs both offer people the same kind of high controlled environment. Some people are insecure enough that they will forget about all the problems they had in one group and move to the other simply because the environments are so similar. Typically the person is thinking much more about what can make them feel secure than any exact doctrinal point.

13

Mormon documentary on PBS

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

there was an interesting documentary on the mormons yesterday.

you could substitute jw for mormon for most of it (except teachings) especially concerning obedience to the higher ups, not questioning the organization, etc.

they disfellowship and excommunicate (excommunication being a worse fate) and if anyone questions the church they are considered an apostate.

drew sagan

It is an excellent documentary. Well worth watching. Probably the best profile of an American religion I have ever seen. I wish the JWs could get that kind of examination. It was very fair and well documented.

16

PSA: Crisis of Conscience Available as PDF on Commentary Press Website

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

pardon me if this is already well-known.

crisis of conscience and in search of christian freedom are available as pdfs on the commentary press website.

coc costs $7.95 and in search costs $9.95.

drew sagan

I am so glad that Ray has done this. So many JWs are afraid of having the actual physical book in their possession. I think many people are going to be finally getting access to this book now that it is available in PDF.

Best part is that Ray uses paypal I believe, so the charge on the credit card will only show up as "paypal" on the bill. I'm pretty sure that it how it goes.

20

Only 37% raised in JW stay in

by White Dove in

in the cbs/ap it's reported that "only 37% of those born into the sect remain members.

" it also said that jw is the fastest growing religion with the worst retention rate.

i guess it's that they appear attractive long enough to baptize the people, then they lose them.

drew sagan

More would stay if they weren't an "Extreme Religion" that asks too much and for all your life.

Technically speaking, you would call this their "commitment factor". In the book "War in Heaven/Heaven on Earth" there is an excellent cusp model described that shows the higher the commitment factor a religion has, the more extreme the drop off is when the member leaves. People that leave low commitment groups usually do so over a longer, extended period of time. I think I'm going scan that cusp model and put it online, I think its worth putting up here.

20

Only 37% raised in JW stay in

by White Dove in

in the cbs/ap it's reported that "only 37% of those born into the sect remain members.

" it also said that jw is the fastest growing religion with the worst retention rate.

i guess it's that they appear attractive long enough to baptize the people, then they lose them.

drew sagan

They never admit that people have brains

Of course not! What do you expect them to do, tell their members that large amounts of people leave because the think it's not the "truth"? How discouraging is that!

I have long suspected that there are actually more ex-jws on this earth than their are active members of the group. I think this polls helps reinforce that idea.

20

Only 37% raised in JW stay in

by White Dove in

in the cbs/ap it's reported that "only 37% of those born into the sect remain members.

" it also said that jw is the fastest growing religion with the worst retention rate.

i guess it's that they appear attractive long enough to baptize the people, then they lose them.

drew sagan

And here all this time I thought they lost only 50%, silly me!

It's only one poll, but the fact that it essentially says the JWs loose 63% of the people raised in the religion is more than I ever would have expected.

17

One easy question to stump a JW

by drew sagan in

for quite some time i have been tossing around the idea that there has to be a question out there, a question that can cut straight to the heart of what it means to question the watchtower.

last night while doing some mindless tasks i think that question may have come to me.

the question is: .

drew sagan

jefferywhat,

You bring up some good points.

I'd like to say though that the reason I like the question I came up with so much is because it brings together a number of important things that simply can't be done by pointing out flaws in their teachings.

1. You are challenging them to use the bible alone, something they that desperately want to do. They love the idea of opening up their Bible and proving something to you. By asking them to do the impossible, you are forcing them to see that their "Bible only" message is a myth. You are forcing them to admit that the Bible alone is not enough to prove their message.

2. You question a core idea taught by the Watchtower, mainly that their religion has been chosen by God. Usually JWs never want to defend this publicly, especially with people they do not know. You have brought some skeletons out of the closet and now they must look at them.

You can argue about many of the questionable details, but to me this question gets beyond things that could be labeled as "foolish debates" by the JW. You want to know if their religion was chosen by God or not. That's a pretty big issue, one that they cannot prove with the Bible alone. It puts them in quite an uncomfortable situation.

17

One easy question to stump a JW

by drew sagan in

for quite some time i have been tossing around the idea that there has to be a question out there, a question that can cut straight to the heart of what it means to question the watchtower.

last night while doing some mindless tasks i think that question may have come to me.

the question is: .

drew sagan

Doubtful they would ever return and you would miss out on a good scrote-twister.

The best suggestion I ever heard was to make sure you schedule an appointement for them to come back. Reach out and make it a point to say you will be expecting them. You can even get their phone numbers. The point would be to put the pressure on.

You are right that most would be quite fearful of somebody that knew so much about their religion. I think if you simply put it in the context of your interest in religion in general you would get a pass (at least in most situations).

6

Golden Age 10th Feb 1937 - PDF !!

by AlphaOmega in

i'm not sure if this edition is "out there" in electronic form, but this is a fresh scan at 300 dpi and ocr'd.. this edition contains the following.... vegetarians do not have cancer.

it is rare among the jews, whose flesh foods are carefully inspected.. a natural diet has been known to cure cancer.

a remedy that has cured many is made of violet leaves, yellow dock and red clover tops.

drew sagan

Much appreciated!

45

If it wasn't for "....................." I'd still be in the "Truth".......

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

for me i think if it wasn't for the fact i'm gay, i'd still be an active witness.

this year, even my mum has said that it wouldn't be "appropriate" if i was to go to the memorial.

now the memorial is something i've never missed, so that kind of stings a bit.

drew sagan

If it wasn't for the Society not being who they claim to be, i'd still be in the "truth".